ST’s - average 9.7% increase

[borisatha]

It’s just weird. It raises 300k apparently. If we need the money that bad we’ve waved goodbye to 6m by tossing it off the last three games. Or our CEO could take a paycut from 2m to 1.7m still be paid more than pretty much every other PL top dog.

I get the price freeze, which was always a reflection of how little our attendance meant vs the tv money, has gone on a long time. I’m just not sure, as we’ve ascertained we don’t need that 300k, that a cost of living crisis is the time to ask people to pay for two women’s matches when we are all free to go watch a woman’s match when we want. Small price rise on tickets for matches you are going to see I kind of get although again this revenue could be got quicker elsewhere.

Im not surprised the usual few disagree with me but I would be surprised if more of the fan base don’t think like me.

Ah the CEO and his salary again. As you’ve mentioned, your not jealous.

 

[fgh76]

Looking at the Echo site which has new and previous prices, the difference for an adult Main Outer was £625 and now gone up to £675.

I think only block 5 is considered main centre, maybe 6 too. Block 7 is main outer which would be the increase you are talking about. I'm in block 8, which is the family stand and no mention of in the pricing....I am assuming they will also class that as Main outer?
I have posted part of my invoice for last year's ST....therefore, you can see it will have doubled in price!
Hopefully they just haven't released the family stand pricing, although I'm not sure why not?

 

[Neil Dawson]

Ah the CEO and his salary again. As you’ve mentioned, your not jealous.

If you think I’m a liar just say. You don’t know me so why not trust me.

I earn less than Blake. I earn less than medical specialists. I earn less than the CEO of every FTSE 250 company. I earn less than Jefferson Lerma. I never speak about any of these apart from Blake. That’s because I’m not jealous of people that earn more than me. I don’t think anyone really is are they? You’d have a pretty miserable existence.

 

[afcdibby]

If that is true though what exactly does he do?

Pi$$ some fans off.

 

[borisatha]

If you think I’m a liar just say. You don’t know me so why not trust me.

I earn less than Blake. I earn less than medical specialists. I earn less than the CEO of every FTSE 250 company. I earn less than Jefferson Lerma. I never speak about any of these apart from Blake. That’s because I’m not jealous of people that earn more than me. I don’t think anyone really is are they? You’d have a pretty miserable existence.

If you say so. But you do mention his earnings all the time. If you say you’re not jealous, then fine.
Why keep harping on?

 

[RobTrent]

Well you are. Also the players. That’s the point of the discussion.. yes you can argue your contribution is a drop in the ocean but if you are arguing that then why raise it in a cost of living crisis?

The original point you raised was a criticism of Neil Blake for raising the prices. I replied that you didn’t give him any credit for the previous 8 years.

you then shifted the goalposts, as you do, to talk about obscene wages and being overpaid. To answer your point more fully, I find all the salaries in football pretty obscene, including the players, but again you’ve turned it into a dig at your bete noir.

Whether Blake is overpaid though isn’t my call. Presumably he’s delivering on the terms of his contract. When he doesn’t he’ll be out.

yes, you are right, I do contribute to all those salaries, and we could all make a difference by not going to football.

 

[Neil Dawson]

Because it isn't 300k. It's 300k of repeat revenue which can be budgeted for ongoing, unlike prize money. Then factor in their longer term ticket price plan. Let's say the increments they have in mind by the time a new stadium is ready in, for example, four years time will take that extra 300k to an extra £1m. With double the capacity with the new stadium that's then £2m. Not small beans.

.

Yeah I get the maths. Apart from the fact you forget it’s subject to VAT so the 300k is 240k before you start. I’m just saying the logical place for me to start if you need that 240k a year so badly is to reduce your CEO’s salary from 2m to 1.76m still leaving him in the top six or seven of the country and not to force people in a cost of living crisis to pay for two games they had no intention of going to.

Or you get your coach to try harder and not experiment in the last four games and get at least 1m which is worth four years of that ticket increase.

Or you decide you didn’t need the money that badly and do neither because let’s face it, we don’t.

Im loving watching a small section of doff capping fans happy to support a CEO’s excess by dipping in their own pocket though. Hilarious!

 

[Neil Dawson]

If you say so. But you do mention his earnings all the time. If you say you’re not jealous, then fine.
Why keep harping on?

Because I don’t think he is worth it. I also moan about the pay non medical execs get in the NHS compared to top medical people. Again, not out of jealousy as I’d moan about both if it was.

 

[billythekid]

I think only block 5 is considered main centre, maybe 6 too. Block 7 is main outer which would be the increase you are talking about. I'm in block 8, which is the family stand and no mention of in the pricing....I am assuming they will also class that as Main outer?
I have posted part of my invoice for last year's ST....therefore, you can see it will have doubled in price!
Hopefully they just haven't released the family stand pricing, although I'm not sure why not?

If you look at the tables for the increased figures, the highest is in the executive seats at £131, otherwise it’s a concession in the centre block at £67.

So hopefully for the family block it won’t be as bad as you thought.

 

[CherryBare]

Yeah I get the maths. Apart from the fact you forget it’s subject to VAT so the 300k is 240k before you start. I’m just saying the logical place for me to start if you need that 240k a year so badly is to reduce your CEO’s salary from 2m to 1.76m still leaving him in the top six or seven of the country and not to force people in a cost of living crisis to pay for two games they had no intention of going to.

Or you get your coach to try harder and not experiment in the last four games and get at least 1m which is worth four years of that ticket increase.

Or you decide you didn’t need the money that badly and do neither because let’s face it, we don’t.

Im loving watching a small section of doff capping fans happy to support a CEO’s excess by dipping in their own pocket though. Hilarious!

I think your missing the point, we do need the money to compete in the league. Bills made it clear we will look to increase revenues in all areas, hospitality, sponsorship, merchandising. You think he's not going to include ticketing?
300k might be small in the overall revenue, but is he going to turn it down? How many shirts do you need to sell to make 300k? And its gross profit.
I dont really care who's decision it was, blame whoever you want, it's a sign of what's going to happen. Look at the 2 sponsors who had to double their sponsorship.
Of course we would all wish to pay less.

 

[fgh76]

If you look at the tables for the increased figures, the highest is in the consecutive seats at £131, otherwise it’s a concession in the centre block at £67.

So hopefully for the family block it won’t be as bad as you thought.

I hope not Billy...it would be helpful if the club advertised pricing for the family stand separately!

 

[Neil Dawson]

I think your missing the point, we do need the money to compete in the league. Bills made it clear we will look to increase revenues in all areas, hospitality, sponsorship, merchandising. You think he's not going to include ticketing?
300k might be small in the overall revenue, but is he going to turn it down? How many shirts do you need to sell to make 300k? And its gross profit.
I dont really care who's decision it was, blame whoever you want, it's a sign of what's going to happen. Look at the 2 sponsors who had to double their sponsorship.
Of course we would all wish to pay less.

I understand people believing we need the 300k, personally I don’t when it’s 6 weeks wages for one player but happy to go with it.

I’m just saying where would your first port of call to find it be? A)Reducing your CEO’s wages down to the level of Liverpool’s. B) charging fans for two games they won’t go to.

If you don’t need to do a you don’t need to do b.

 

[SlowDownDerek]

I understand people believing we need the 300k, personally I don’t when it’s 6 weeks wages for one player but happy to go with it.

I’m just saying where would your first port of call to find it be? A)Reducing your CEO’s wages down to the level of Liverpool’s. B) charging fans for two games they won’t go to.

If you don’t need to do a you don’t need to do b.

The new owner is increasing revenue in all areas from people attending matches to the biggest advertisers. There's no first port of call they are conducting a root and branch overhaul of how the club is run. I would have thought you'd be pleased.

 

[LewSwimmin]

I have no gripe with the actual cost of my season ticket for next season given that it has not increased for 8 years and still represents good value for money to watch top flight football every fortnight. Prices were bound to increase sooner or later, although I agree with others that it is unnecessary in the context of the Club's total income.
However, I don't like the way that the management is presenting this by claiming figures of 8% and 9.7% as an average, which seems disingenuous at best and downright dishonest at worst.
My East Stand Outer senior ST has risen from £340 to £409 (assuming that the two women's games are not optional extras which seems deliberately unclear at present). This is an increase of 20%, more than double the claimed average, which implies that an equivalent number of seats remain at the same price which seems a tad unlikely if not completely untrue. It is also noticable that nearly all the senior prices throughout the stadium have increased by a higher amount than the standard adult ones.
My guess is that this level of increase will apply to about one third of the STs sold. Is this a deliberate attempt to reduce the number of seniors buying STs so that more tickets can be sold at the full price on a match by match basis? If it is, it is not a good sign to be singling out the section of the fanbase who kept the Club alive in the bad times before and after the turn of the century.
Added to this is the fact that most fans will lose the use of the 1910 bar to the prawn sandwich brigade with as yet no equivalent alternative being offered. If I recall it correctly the fitting out of the bar was paid for by supporters donations at the time and not by the Club itself, so it seems to me a bit unfair to deprive ordinary fans of the use of this facility which is a lot more pleasant and comfortable environment to have a drink in than those provided by the unfurnished and basic concourse spaces.

 

[kirsikka]

Yeah I get the maths. Apart from the fact you forget it’s subject to VAT so the 300k is 240k before you start. I’m just saying the logical place for me to start if you need that 240k a year so badly is to reduce your CEO’s salary from 2m to 1.76m still leaving him in the top six or seven of the country and not to force people in a cost of living crisis to pay for two games they had no intention of going to.

Or you get your coach to try harder and not experiment in the last four games and get at least 1m which is worth four years of that ticket increase.

Or you decide you didn’t need the money that badly and do neither because let’s face it, we don’t.

Im loving watching a small section of doff capping fans happy to support a CEO’s excess by dipping in their own pocket though. Hilarious!

If you want to start talking specifics, it's not 240k or 300k, it's closer to 600k, less that VAT so 500k because I think we can expect the ticket price increases to carry across to all tickets, not just season tickets.

Having said that, if we'd have finished 17th, which we can't, with less prize money these ticket prices would still have come in.

If we'd have won the last three and ended up in 11th with that extra prize money, these ticket price increases would still have come in.

If we'd have had a much better season and finished 7th, qualified for Europe and got a hell of a lot more prize money, these ticket prices would still have come in.

Whether you like it or not, the two things are not connected. Frevola will have been given a brief to grow revenue in every department and will have targets there. No matter what happens in one, he'll still need to hit his target in another. The thing that you've overlooked with your position example is ticket revenue is predicatable and repeatable. Prize money isn't.

Guess what? No matter what happened on the pitch, these ticket price increases were coming.

As for the CEO salary, I'm not sure why you seem to imply I think it's ok. I can't be bothered to go check but IIRC I was the one that posted the PL CEO comparison table and pointed out how outrageous it is compared to some of the others. I think it's ridiculous.

Having said that, if Blake was binned tomorrow and we somehow recruited a top notch replacement who was happy to work for 250k (we wouldn't but let's go with it), saving us £1.75m then guess what? The ticket price increases would still come in.

There is definitely a saving that can be made on the CEO but it's unconnected to the ticket price increases as they were coming anyway. And they'll be coming again in future seasons as well.

A lot of people in commercial positions at the club are going to be looking over their shoulders. The sponsorship sales team suddenly know they have to sell out everything but at double the fees they used to charge. And that's just this season, expect them to go up more in the future. If they don't do it, I'd imagine Jim will hire someone that can. Even if they do manage to double our sponsorship revenue, guess what? The ticket prices increases were still coming. Even if they tripled it. The two things aren't connected.

Meanwhile, Blake will be under review by Jim who will be giving Bill his assessment whether he is value for money. Its even possible that Jim doesn't rate him but they decide the connections and relationships he has built up at the planning office mean they want to keep him in place until after the stadium is approved or even built. Who knows.

It seems clear Blake is overpaid but even if they got him to agree to a 50% pay cut, the ticket prices would still increase.

That's not cap doffing. That's the reality of having a hard nosed businessman in charge. They probably look at that lot up the road and their season ticket price of £1k and think, if they can do it so can we. I don't have to like it to recognise it.

 

[Kudos]

My East Stand Outer senior ST has risen from £340 to £409 (assuming that the two women's games are not optional extras which seems deliberately unclear at present). This is an increase of 20%, more than double the claimed average, which implies that an equivalent number of seats remain at the same price which seems a tad unlikely if not completely untrue. It is also noticable that nearly all the senior prices throughout the stadium have increased by a higher amount than the standard adult ones.
My guess is that this level of increase will apply to about one third of the STs sold. Is this a deliberate attempt to reduce the number of seniors buying STs so that more tickets can be sold at the full price on a match by match basis? If it is, it is not a good sign to be singling out the section of the fanbase who kept the Club alive in the bad times before and after the turn of the century.

Forced purchasing of women's tickets feels like a stealth rise IMO as it doesn't seem to be included in the figures.

The concession prices have had the biggest changes according to Jim because there were apparently huge price differences which they were looking to align a bit better as part of the increase. I've never been eligible for a concession so I don't know if he means different types of concession or different parts of the ground but it does sound like you've been shafted a bit.

Added to this is the fact that most fans will lose the use of the 1910 bar to the prawn sandwich brigade with as yet no equivalent alternative being offered. If I recall it correctly the fitting out of the bar was paid for by supporters donations at the time and not by the Club itself, so it seems to me a bit unfair to deprive ordinary fans of the use of this facility which is a lot more pleasant and comfortable environment to have a drink in than those provided by the unfurnished and basic concourse spaces.

Jim said they were moving some things about. He mentioned Bubbles being repurposed for "half-time teas" and providing new answers for pre-match pints. Pretty vague but he included the Ted Shed in that promise. The reasoning quite frankly sounds like a 250-capacity space is too small to serve the general fan base and they could make good money using it to fleece the prawn sandwich brigade.

They probably look at that lot up the road and their season ticket price of £1k and think, if they can do it so can we. I don't have to like it to recognise it.

The most expensive tickets at Southampton are about £850 and around £150 cheaper than our equivalent. It's the same pretty much across all the price categories with I think their cheapest (non-concession) being about £400 to our now ~£600.
I do find it funny how we look at our ticket prices in total isolation from the wider footballing world.

 

[kirsikka]

Forced purchasing of women's tickets feels like a stealth rise IMO as it doesn't seem to be included in the figures.

The concession prices have had the biggest changes according to Jim because there were apparently huge price differences which they were looking to align a bit better as part of the increase. I've never been eligible for a concession so I don't know if he means different types of concession or different parts of the ground but it does sound like you've been shafted a bit.



Jim said they were moving some things about. He mentioned Bubbles being repurposed for "half-time teas" and providing new answers for pre-match pints. Pretty vague but he included the Ted Shed in that promise. The reasoning quite frankly sounds like a 250-capacity space is too small to serve the general fan base and they could make good money using it to fleece the prawn sandwich brigade.



The most expensive tickets at Southampton are about £850 and around £150 cheaper than our equivalent. It's the same pretty much across all the price categories with I think their cheapest (non-concession) being about £400 to our now ~£600.
I do find it funny how we look at our ticket prices in total isolation from the wider footballing world.

I'm not an expert on their ticket prices, just took a quick look at average prices at other clubs to work out what their target may be and this popped up:
https://www.givemesport.com/8801535...er-league-clubs-2022-23-season-ticket-prices/

Showed that lot as having an average of £999.

If it's wrong, it doesn't actually take away from the point. They will have a target revenue from tickets, and we will face increases until we hit it.

 

[SteveJonesLegend]

I completely miss-read the initial communication, believing the women's tickets were included as a carrot to get more numbers in to see them, which I applauded... However, having understood properly now, that these are indeed compulsory purchase tickets on top of my NS £594 ST price, I am taking my applause back...

For me, the £14 is not the issue, it's the fact that it is being forced on everyone...and one of my overriding thoughts was 'how do the women's team feel about this'..? Having tickets to their games forced on ST holders...

Social media has had very mixed responses to this and you can imagine the twitter mob are out in force... One of the players from our women's team has already come out on twitter to say she's seen lots of derogatory posts aimed at them and shouldn't have to read a lot of the anti-women's game tripe she has had to in the last 24 hours...

To me, this was an inevitable reaction from a lot of fans (mainly because of how it has been forced on them) and something the club has clearly not taken into consideration... Potentially good intentions (although probably more about making more money), could have a very negative effect and push the women's team back a bit as a result...

Why they couldn't just have added the two women's games for free to all ST holders, and offer 1 home point to anyone attending is beyond me (or just included them in the price and made every ticket £14 more expensive, we'd have been one the wiser...)

Small steps people... A clear example where transparency has not worked in their favour...

 

[Neil Dawson]

If you want to start talking specifics, it's not 240k or 300k, it's closer to 600k, less that VAT so 500k because I think we can expect the ticket price increases to carry across to all tickets, not just season tickets.

Having said that, if we'd have finished 17th, which we can't, with less prize money these ticket prices would still have come in.

If we'd have won the last three and ended up in 11th with that extra prize money, these ticket price increases would still have come in.

If we'd have had a much better season and finished 7th, qualified for Europe and got a hell of a lot more prize money, these ticket prices would still have come in.

Whether you like it or not, the two things are not connected. Frevola will have been given a brief to grow revenue in every department and will have targets there. No matter what happens in one, he'll still need to hit his target in another. The thing that you've overlooked with your position example is ticket revenue is predicatable and repeatable. Prize money isn't.

Guess what? No matter what happened on the pitch, these ticket price increases were coming.

As for the CEO salary, I'm not sure why you seem to imply I think it's ok. I can't be bothered to go check but IIRC I was the one that posted the PL CEO comparison table and pointed out how outrageous it is compared to some of the others. I think it's ridiculous.

Having said that, if Blake was binned tomorrow and we somehow recruited a top notch replacement who was happy to work for 250k (we wouldn't but let's go with it), saving us £1.75m then guess what? The ticket price increases would still come in.

There is definitely a saving that can be made on the CEO but it's unconnected to the ticket price increases as they were coming anyway. And they'll be coming again in future seasons as well.

A lot of people in commercial positions at the club are going to be looking over their shoulders. The sponsorship sales team suddenly know they have to sell out everything but at double the fees they used to charge. And that's just this season, expect them to go up more in the future. If they don't do it, I'd imagine Jim will hire someone that can. Even if they do manage to double our sponsorship revenue, guess what? The ticket prices increases were still coming. Even if they tripled it. The two things aren't connected.

Meanwhile, Blake will be under review by Jim who will be giving Bill his assessment whether he is value for money. Its even possible that Jim doesn't rate him but they decide the connections and relationships he has built up at the planning office mean they want to keep him in place until after the stadium is approved or even built. Who knows.

It seems clear Blake is overpaid but even if they got him to agree to a 50% pay cut, the ticket prices would still increase.

That's not cap doffing. That's the reality of having a hard nosed businessman in charge. They probably look at that lot up the road and their season ticket price of £1k and think, if they can do it so can we. I don't have to like it to recognise it.

I was only quoting your number. I took it as read you were right.

I’m also assuming they won’t be able to ask non season ticket holders to pay for two matches they won’t go to?

I get the price rise, the method is horrendous as is the comms.

All I’m saying is if you need money fine to go get it from all sources but why are fans so accepting of this stat and not asking why it’s not the first source of profit growth . I also know there’s nothing any of us can do about any of it!

 

[Neil Dawson]

The new owner is increasing revenue in all areas from people attending matches to the biggest advertisers. There's no first port of call they are conducting a root and branch overhaul of how the club is run. I would have thought you'd be pleased.

They’ve missed an area in this root and branch overhaul though Del. Their pay. Funny that… still that’s alright sir, I know my place….