Non - Brexit

Xchurch_Red said:
Meanwhile - across the water in the US ofA, this comment was made to an article in the New York Times.

Seems the yanks are rubbing their hands with glee at the demise of "England" due to Brexit;


beebs commented 2 hours ago
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beebs
kona 2h ago
I'm excited to witness the ending to the Brexit tragicomedy, where the ENGLISH economy tanks, the pound plummets, lines for knee replacements through the NHS get longer due to physician shortage from indirectly caused by Brexit, resulting in ENGLAND getting its just deserts. No desserts for the chumocracy.
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Good god. Now we're taking the comments of some random nobody from a newspaper comments section as an indication of what a whole country thinks.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Perhaps but this one has had only one job, granted it's a difficult job but she has literally made things worse with every decision she has taken.
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I cant think of one 'reign' that has had problems that have been even remotely as complicated to work through. Even WW2 had 99% of the country pulling in the same direction.
 
DartGuru said:
I cant think of one 'reign' that has had problems that have been even remotely as complicated to work through. Even WW2 had 99% of the country pulling in the same direction.
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Well irrespective of comparing one leader with another (about as easy as comparing footballers across generations) she's been terrible. She was dealt a bad hand and played it horrendously.
 
DartGuru said:
Dont get me wrong, im not defending her, just saying that i dont think anyone could get it right.
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Well she could have gone for cross-party concensus right from the start as I'm pretty sure a number of us suggested on this thread years ago. Then maybe not call a general election and alienate half her own MPs. You might be right about nobody being able to get it right but I can't imagine anyone getting it more wrong.
 
YankCherry said:
Outside view. Tell me where I am wrong for my own education.

From the US it seems the people were misinformed about why and how to break away from the EU and voted for it by paper thin margins.

Seems the politicians know what a bad decision it is to leave and can’t agree how to do it.

If this is a high level overview my question is why did they let the people vote? And why not make them vote again?

A side question. What do you guys over there think of Trump?
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It's a complex question and I'm loathe to assume on behalf of others but I believe that very few Brexiteers believed there would be a short term gain from leaving, although a lot of "no deal" advocates will point to our huge EU contribution and think that would be enough money to cushion the blow.

The margins look thin when you think there's 4% difference but when you factor in record attendance and that our current democratic process where around 30% of the vote chooses 100% of the government, comparatively it's perhaps the biggest mandate from British population in history.

MPs overwhelmingly support membership the EU so they want a deal. They choose amongst themselves what parts of EU membership they think people want. Whatever they choose the EU wants the UK to rejoin, ideally with worse terms but regardless wants to punish as much as possible without harming themselves too much.

This means all deals offered will be weaker than membership so the only real choice is "no deal" or "remain".

As for Trump, he's not the most pleasant of individuals but I think he's a product of politics of offence. Many traditional working people have legitimate concerns about issues such as immigration but they are shouted down, labelled racists and told to shut up. The only person who could represent those views would need to be someone with no political correctness and the skin of a rhino.

There's definitely a similarity between working class low skilled British people who through EU immigration have seen no realistic increase in wages for decades who don't give a toss if some bankers in London lose a bit of cash because of Brexit and the average rust belt American who voted for Trump to revive their industries.
 
Kudos said:
There's definitely a similarity between working class low skilled British people who through EU immigration have seen no realistic increase in wages for decades who don't give a toss if some bankers in London lose a bit of cash because of Brexit and the average rust belt American who voted for Trump to revive their industries.
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I imagine the bigger businesses will simply relocate to where the wages will be cheaper. Will other businesses really raise wages as a result? I'm not so sure about that.
 
Preparation, preparation, preparation

The buck starts and stops with the PM for no plan B or Plan C.
You got to know when to hold em, you got to know when to fold em.

Her track record of overseeing chaos in prisons and policing on her watch as home secretary suggests the Brexit shambles isn't a one off.
 
Kudos said:
It's a complex question and I'm loathe to assume on behalf of others but I believe that very few Brexiteers believed there would be a short term gain from leaving, although a lot of "no deal" advocates will point to our huge EU contribution and think that would be enough money to cushion the blow.

The margins look thin when you think there's 4% difference but when you factor in record attendance and that our current democratic process where around 30% of the vote chooses 100% of the government, comparatively it's perhaps the biggest mandate from British population in history.

MPs overwhelmingly support membership the EU so they want a deal. They choose amongst themselves what parts of EU membership they think people want. Whatever they choose the EU wants the UK to rejoin, ideally with worse terms but regardless wants to punish as much as possible without harming themselves too much.

This means all deals offered will be weaker than membership so the only real choice is "no deal" or "remain".

As for Trump, he's not the most pleasant of individuals but I think he's a product of politics of offence. Many traditional working people have legitimate concerns about issues such as immigration but they are shouted down, labelled racists and told to shut up. The only person who could represent those views would need to be someone with no political correctness and the skin of a rhino.

There's definitely a similarity between working class low skilled British people who through EU immigration have seen no realistic increase in wages for decades who don't give a toss if some bankers in London lose a bit of cash because of Brexit and the average rust belt American who voted for Trump to revive their industries.
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I agree wholeheartedly with 99% of what you say. The only bit I disagree with is your view of the brexiteer vote. I firmly believe there was a grass is greener view without having the faintest idea of what they were voting for.
 
YankCherry said:
Outside view. Tell me where I am wrong for my own education.

From the US it seems the people were misinformed about why and how to break away from the EU and voted for it by paper thin margins.

Seems the politicians know what a bad decision it is to leave and can’t agree how to do it.

If this is a high level overview my question is why did they let the people vote? And why not make them vote again?

A side question. What do you guys over there think of Trump?
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From where I'm slouched that is a spot on assessment of Brexit.

Trump?

Don't get me started, that's a whole new thread. :grinning:
 
If we stayed In ultimately after a new Referendum we remain in a Flawed Institute....do we then still have people like Farage representing us as MEP's and getting nothing sorted..just a load of protesting....or
If we came Out we start off as a a Flawed Institute ourselves and into the Unknown requiring copious amounts of Ingenuity and Vision!

Either one is huge challenge to face with the divided Parties and Dithering people we have elected.
MASSIVE changes are required in our system of operating!
We simply cannot carry on ' kicking cans down roads'...having 'elephants in rooms'..'reaching out across the aisle'..and hanging off the cliffs with many more vacuous cliches and idioms.....because that's all we seem to get in the statements to the public or in interviews with the press.....and we are expected to vote in a meaningful way for more of this fu#king Vapid Banality!
 
BillMcgarrycherry said:
If we stayed In ultimately after a new Referendum we remain in a Flawed Institute....do we then still have people like Farage representing us as MEP's and getting nothing sorted..just a load of protesting....or
If we came Out we start off as a a Flawed Institute ourselves and into the Unknown requiring copious amounts of Ingenuity and Vision!

Either one is huge challenge to face with the divided Parties and Dithering people we have elected.
MASSIVE changes are required in our system of operating!
We simply cannot carry on ' kicking cans down roads'...having 'elephants in rooms'..'reaching out across the aisle'..and hanging off the cliffs with many more vacuous cliches and idioms.....because that's all we seem to get in the statements to the public or in interviews with the press.....and we are expected to vote in a meaningful way for more of this fu#king Vapid Banality!
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Surely there are too many MPs voting on something they know nothing about. Most of them are wind up merchants like our corporal Minty.
 
Xchurch_Red said:
Meanwhile - across the water in the US ofA, this comment was made to an article in the New York Times.

Seems the yanks are rubbing their hands with glee at the demise of "England" due to Brexit;


beebs commented 2 hours ago
B
beebs
kona 2h ago
I'm excited to witness the ending to the Brexit tragicomedy, where the ENGLISH economy tanks, the pound plummets, lines for knee replacements through the NHS get longer due to physician shortage from indirectly caused by Brexit, resulting in ENGLAND getting its just deserts. No desserts for the chumocracy.
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I don’t know many people here in the US that even understand brexit. I am an avid news reader and I feel I barely get it.

I know this though Trump is working for Putin and destroying democracy and it’s allies and I for one am very unhappy about it.
 
Kudos said:
American who voted for Trump to revive their industries.
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Except he hasn’t revived anything for those people just the filthy rich made out. He removed all environmental laws so the top 1% can exploit the environment.

As far as immigration. A wall? For real? Most illegal immigrants arrive in airports with visas and over stay them. The few migrant workers take jobs no American would take. Or if they did an apple would cost five bucks in order to pay American workers a decent wage and benefits.

Easy way to stop illegal workers if you really wanted to. Fine businesses caught employing them one billion dollars per illegal worker. That would end it over night with no additional expense. Why won’t they do that? Because they are there to make the rich richer.

Btw enjoyed your post very thought out.
 
stanthevan said:
Everyone’s a loser, baby, that’s no lie.
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Even if that's true don't you think that the mistake was Major not seeking a mandate from the public in 1992 or Brown in 2007 when they actually made the major constitutional changes in the first place. All of this was an inevitable consequence of those decisions that was going to come to a head sooner or later.
 
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